Paying Customers Shouldn't Have To Seek Updates

I really do wish you would cut it out with this stuff. It will almost certainly have a direct impact on their ability to get this product out the door. And make them even LESS forthcoming about what’s going on in the meantime.

Mind sharing how you’ve come to this conclusion?

@akula34, I understand the purpose of those organizations and think they are necessary for protecting consumers from fraudulent companies. I don’t think WayTools is one of those companies. I think they may be guilty of underestimating the number of problems they would encounter when taking a small device with a ton of sensors and magnets in a very tiny package to production volumes as well as issues that arise when introducing that device to a broader set of users with a broader set of use cases and typing styles. I think they are guilty of not providing a level of status that would let their customers know what they are facing. I think they are guilty of providing very poor estimates and projected shipping dates. Until they stop working on the product and disappear, I don’t think they are guilty of fraud.

They have shipped devices to a test group and that test group has confirmed that the product is real. There have been issues reported during testing and issues corrected. Testing is ongoing. There are still some issues being reported. Not sure if any of them will hold up shipping but, but they could. Barring that, I believe shipping will begin soon.

So, if WayTools is already doing their best to resolve issues with the product and get it shipped as fast as they can, how do these actions help the customers again? Will the BBB and FTC make them post status on their own forum? Will they make WayTools refund everyone, causing foreign customers to incure conversion fees and rate differences now and again when they repurchase when the product is ready to ship? Are you hoping they will fine WayTools and put them out of business? Are you a lawyer hoping to profit from all this? What are you hoping to gain? Please be honest about your intentions.

Since you are assuming no one will get a keyboard in the next 6 months, distracting them with legal action is not going to matter much in getting the product out the door, in you reasoning, right?

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Waytools LESS forthcoming? How is that even possible? I’m honestly laughing out loud at this one…

Thanks, I needed a good chuckle…

They put up a long blog post in late March about their progress. And have posted a few times on the forum since then.

Shipping date? It’s been a weeks away for 14 months…

Soon… almost… almost… close… Did I miss any of the adjectives WT’s has used? I’m sure I did.

Hands on last March. The product has existed for a significant amount of time. TREG wasn’t needed to see the product existed. Mass production is the issue. It still is.

Ever heard the phrase, “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

I’m not a lawyer. Just someone who made a contractural agreement with a company to purchase a product. I didn’t pre-order it. I ordered it. Delivery was expected promptly after being charged. FTC rules state 30-days as a guideline, but reasonable is the actual term used. I have not received the product, nor any communication from WayTools regarding delays.

That’s not ok. Not even close.

Furthermore, “Floating” is not allowed by almost all credit card companies and is prohibited in Merchant Agreements in areas where it is not outright illegal. Do some research.

And honestly, I’m not worried about the cost of my order. I forgot about the cost a long time ago and have only checked the forums about once per quarter over the last 14 months. This is more about principle.

I wonder how you’d feel if you weren’t a part of the TREG? Do you think you’re the impartial observer you want to appear to be? I think not…

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I am not a TREG member and agree wholeheartedly with @Jim

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I have to say, I agree it might be a time for legal action. What was the motive for charging the full price in advance for pre-orders? It seems reasonable when the money is used to demonstrate commitment and perhaps to fund the actual manufacture of a final product to pay a month or so before the product is shipped. But at this point, the money from all of these orders must have been spent long ago on development costs which is not acceptable. It has become clear that the effect of this scheme is really only to allow Waytools to avoid seeking (as much) venture capital to fund their development. If I am funding a startup venture, I want a cut. If Waytools wants anyone to belive that pre-order money was not used to fund development of a high risk venture, then refund all the pre-orders, converting every order to a traditional pre-order and play by the rules, recharging our cards when the product is actually ready to ship.

Yes, legal action might delay shipment of the first few orders while they are forced to seek funding, but it might also call a halt a fraudulent bushiness practice.

–Brad

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As a mostly-happy TREGger, I don’t advise legal action against @waytools. I know, that’s easy for me to say, since I got mine already. My main concern is that the company survives the startup phase so as to be able to produce and ship TextBlades in mass, and to provide support going forward, with updates and new versions. If they get buried now in legal issues, they may just close shop. Believe me, if you get addicted to a TB, you wouldn’t want that to happen.

Another possible avenue toward getting some feedback here is to check the https://forum.waytools.com/about page. There are six admin accounts listed. @support was lurking recently. One (or many?) could send a private message to that account, imploring them to post an update or set up a regularly-scheduled blog posting.

(typed on TextBlade)

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That may or may not be correct, I agree it has the look of it, but they may have done what law firms do and be keeping the money in a separate client account, that’s not regarded (in the UK at least) as being an asset of the company. I’m not saying that they have or haven’t done that, just that assuming they have spent the funds may not be correct.

Apparently WT in the past have said they are self funded (I think that came from DBK, but I could be wrong.) If that is actually the case (again I’ve seen no written confirmation on that from WT themselves) the customers funds would presumably not have been spent.

What they are undoubtedly guilty of is dire communications with their paying customers, but sadly that’s not an actual crime - at least in the UK, given the propensity of folks in the US to launch legal proceedings who knows (Maybe the Shadow does)

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That is quite correct, WT may have an escrow account for these funds, but I doubt any information like that would be shared unless forced to by outside entities, Visa/MC/AmEx or the FTC.

“Floating” is still prevented by Credit Card companies in almost all locations and not allowed by Merchant Agreements, even if it isn’t illegal in the municipality, regardless of escrow account status.

@akula34, I’ve only been a TREG tester for less than two weeks. Do you think that completely erased the 13 months pior? If you check my previous posts, you’ll know exactly how I feel. What I can tell you is that WayTools has made some mistakes in how they handled their customers and was probably a bit too arrogant in their assessment of their production readiness. They are also very passionate about this product. They are not holding up shipment to just mess with people. They are trying to get it right. Before, I have thought and posted that they were going for a level of perfection that was far higher than their customers expect. But, after receiving a TextBlade and using it and sharing experiences with other testers, I do have a different perspective. I can see where they needed to make some changes to accommodate various user types. Techie folks like myself may be able to work though issues, but the every day user who just wants to have a keyboard and have it work may not be equipped for that. So, they are in the process of proving out a few hardware issues, fine tuning the configuration to match a broader set of users and use cases, getting the appropriate level of documentation in place, and getting the hardware ready for shipment. If you let them do that, I think you will be happy with the results.

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Actually if WT refunded my card even if the exchange rates had not changed I think I’d be about 6% or 7% down because of the overseas transaction fees.

Exactly my point. If they were made to refund everyone now, it would actually be worse for a large segment of the customer base. It would also be an action that the customers could have initiated themselves at any time and those that have active orders have not done so (except those that canceled and reordered of course).

@Jim You’re completely missing the point. WT got themselves into this situation. It’s their responsibility to get themselves out of it. Not the customer’s.

WT was NOT ALLOWED BY THE MERCHANT TERMS OF SERVICE to charge for orders that would not ship in a reasonable amount of time. 14 months is not reasonable.

Regardless of their overall goal, it’s not allowed. It’s simple.

And you can be apologetic all you want, you’d have a different take if you didn’t have a device in hand.

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Yep, as I’ve said before the TB looks to be a good product, the card hit is why I’ve hung on rather than cancelling and re-ordering (out of principle rather than because $10 is that important, banks make enough from me as it is !) and though I don’t have details of the early adopter gift I’m hard pushed to see how it would vary depending on an April 2015 vs now order date. Actually are you able to comment if the early order gift does seem to be something that would vary based on order date, or is it something that is fixed for all pre-orders ? (Not on the gift itself, I understand the TREG agreement blocks discussion of that)

It’s just a pity that to get such a great product we have to deal with such a poor supplier (usual comments about adult supervision etc.)

I think people will be pleased with the gift and I can imagine how WayTools could support multiple gift tiers if they wanted.

That’s not possible.

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Bwahahaha… Right… if I ask WayTools nicely (again), they’ll update more frequently… I should try that. Great suggestion.

I’m not an investor in a startup. I purchased a product that was supposed to ship promptly. Completely different scenario and not applicable in this case.

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That would worry me more if I thought my original order had any chance of being fulfillable anytime in 2016.

I don’t.