I don’t know if you go to concerts, but it is extremely common to see ads say that such-and-such a show, which isn’t scheduled until later in the year, is already sold out months earlier. I see nothing wrong with Waytools saying all possible July and August shipments are already sold. But then I’m not bitter and twisted like you.
Try again. Negotiation:
mutual discussion and arrangement of the terms of a transaction or agreement
the process of discussing something with someone in order to reach an agreement, or the discussions themselves
As we know, we simply had the deal they offered, take it or leave it. No negotiating.
If you try to apply that to any transaction, it loses any value as a word. You can go into some stores and negotiate the price. You can go into other stores and they’ll tell you they don’t negotiate the price. In both cases, you may buy the product, but in only one is there actual negotiation.
Doesn’t matter how late it was. People who test things are normally going to sign an NDA. It is COMMON SENSE.
That’s weird, considering how many people kept saying it should have been shipped long ago, no matter that then, you know, it was far more incomplete. I don’t consider my device “incomplete”. Sure, over time it can do more, but from the start it did the main things. Is an iphone with iOS 9.0 “incomplete” because later they add capabilities in 9.1, etc? I don’t think so.
You were complaining about an NDA even before we knew about it. Good move if you DON’T want to be selected!
Which is what SHOULD happen if you violate the terms. Why would they want a permanently working unit out in the wild, possibly given to competitors? You seem to want WT to act stupidly.
Actually, you may well be wrong on this as well. Consistency not always being a good thing!
They said from the start that TREG would be done in waves. At the time, we all thought they’d choose the people and ship over a period of a week or so. That was, of course, an assumption, but one I made myself so clearly a logical one . Based on what we’ve seen so far, everyone was wrong. After all, we’ve seen four TREG groups so far and they have said more will be coming - I think even after general shipping.
Which means that one of the groups will probably be Android or other users when that is ready. It would also make perfect sense to include them WHEN IT IS READY. Which would mean that all those people who listed Android devices were NOT “ruled out”. Rather just not included in the first batches. When they are ready with the Android app, they would not only be considered, but would probably be a priority since they already would have plenty of iOS testers.
They may even choose you, though, frankly, I wouldn’t. If you cant figure out the usage of “negotiation” or understand that concerts can be listed as “sold out” well in advance, or primarily make your arguments by claiming someone works for Waytools, or that people have “stockholm syndrome”, then why would I trust your judgment?
I wonder what they mean by “Not Many Left” and what they will say when those are sold…
I didn’t want to test it. I wanted what was offered to be delivered.
It’s still incomplete.
No, a phone with iOS 9.0 is complete because it shipped.
Um, because that’s what they promised to deliver? I agree with you that they don’t seem to actually want to do that.
They’re selling it as Android-ready now, and have been since January 2015. But you can’t do TREG without the mobile app. Which is now officially “coming soon”, a big step up from not disclosing the lack of availability at all.
Offer and acceptance is a one-round negotation. Offer is made, and it’s either accepted,declined, or a counteroffer is made in a bid to begin another round. It’s common practice to offer at a fixed price, which means stating or implying up-front that counteroffers will not be considered.
I can tell you they won’t say SOLD SOLD SOLD on dates when there is no concert at all. Or dates when the concert has been cancelled.
@d_man: Would I TREG now? Well, since I don’t even have a pending order, that’s not going to happen. I’d have to review what the terms would be. And if the offer was for a device with a phone-home remote bricking capability, I’d decline. Because not only will such a device quit if WT doesn’t like you anymore, it will also quit if they go out of business and shut the server down. I won’t reinstate my order until the full Android app is available in the Play Store, so it would seem that I couldn’t be a TREG participant anyway.
Have to bow out of this thread now, I’m out of comment quota because I’ve been demoted as punishment for posting the Wrong Thing, or for cancelling my order until the product is available, or something, and I wasted too many on DBK.
I don’t really give a hoot about your assessment of my judgement. And yes, you and everyone in TREG is working part-time for WT.
With your device still leashed to WT, you’re a prime candidate for capture-bonding; sorry it bothers you so much to have this pointed out, but it really is obvious
Yet you applied - false pretenses?
Okay, so I got shipped the TB. Glad that is settled![quote=“MaggieL, post:65, topic:3590”]
Um, because that’s what they promised to deliver?
It has mostly been estimates, not promises.
But if it isn’t ready, it shouldn’t ship.
They said a very long time ago that the app would trail a FINISHED iOS version by 1-2 months.
But you are ignoring my point - which is that Android users applying was likely not meaningless at all because TREG is continuing and when they are ready for Android, they can select from that group.
Meanwhile, as a keyboard it IS ready for android. Testers are using it on Android and can do so without the app.
Well, that was anticipated, which was why I pointed out to interpret it your way would render the word worthless.
I even gave examples. Even your description above is screwy since a counter offer is only going to be a negotiation if there is give and take on both sides. You can argue for a different deal all you want, but as long as the other person says they aren’t changing anything, you have no negotiation. But you can capitulate!
The “common practice to offer at a fixed price” is a silly argument. If they are just trying to make you think that, but really will give ground, then it is nothing but a negotiation TACTIC. But still a negotiation. It is not so when, in fact, they really won’t consider anything but the list price.
Go ahead, find me anyone on these forums who went to WT, told them they didn’t think it was right to charge $99, and got them to drop the price to $98.
Yet you pass judgment on others.
Fortunately, they probably don’t think much of your’s either.
Stick to Stockholm Syndrome. It’s more catchy.
But either way it is just tactic to try to ignore what people actually say by degrading the people saying it. Very childish.
I have been demoted to new user, as well.
If a company has to go to lengths to limit the forum posts to get the message in their favor, they have lost all credibility in my eyes. In all honesty, Peace and God Bless.
That seems like an entirely reasonable point of view for anyone using Android who would only find value in a TextBlade that they could custom configure (as opposed to a TextBlade that functions as a standard keyboard).
However, something to keep in mind…
As I understand things, all of the additional customizing functionality that you’re wanting to have is only available through the MultiMap app. This app is free for pre-orders but will cost $19 once regular shipping begins. So, you can wait for the certainty of regular shipping, get a (hopefully) great portable keyboard, and pay $19 extra for the full functionality you desire, or you could re-pre-order (which you’ve said you don’t want to do at this point), live with the uncertainty, get a (hopefully) great portable keyboard when they start shipping, and get the full functionality you desire through the MultiMap app for free shortly (hopefully within a couple months) after shipping begins. Given all the hardware delays, it seems entirely possible at this point that the Android version of MultiMap may even be ready to use when regular shipping begins. I’m guessing this is a choice you’ll find rather annoying!
Back to your stance on TREG, given that you are uninterested or unwilling to participate in TREG (I believe I’m accurately representing your view here- please correct me if I’m not), it seems entirely unreasonable if you continue to complain about not being a part of TREG. I’m not trying to be spiteful here, just trying to hold you to account for what you’ve said- in the past, it seemed like you were trying to have it both ways with regard to TREG.
Capture bonding is more descriptive.
And even if there’s only one offer, and acceptance or rejection round to a negotiation, it is still exactly that. The Latin negotiare means “to carry on business”, which is why it also has meanings relating to commercial paper. Perhaps you’ve come to think of it as meaning “haggling”. Not my problem.
No, what you have isn’t the TB. It’s a prototype, lacking at least the final non-poison-pill software and changes to the key caps, we’re told. You just got done telling us it isn’t finished and thus shouldn’t ship.
I applied to be considered for TREG not because I wanted to test but because it seemed the best way to get something for my money, pending full performance. It was certainly the only way to possibly find out what teh sekret terms of the TREG counteroffer were. But that was something they wanted only cult members to know, on pain of bricking if it was revealed.
The original promise was “We take your money and send you a keyboard and software”. Not “We take your money and send you inaccurate monthly estimates of when we’ll actually perform”.
Actually, what I recall they they said was that it would follow hardware shipments by “a couple of months”.
Nah, just another tool to ignore arguments by attacking some made up psychological problems of the opposition.
I provided you with two definitions. It does not include one side dictating terms but rather a give and take. I also gave you examples to show why, using your personal definition, the word ceases to matter.
Not to me and I’m the one who actually has it so I have more insight into it.
A prototype isn’t this good.
They’ve phrased it different ways, the most common being a couple months - which I covered in the 60 days.
I’m not complaining about not being a part of the program. I’m complaining about the secretive and deceptive way the program was created and introduced. With occasion reference to the fact that any necessary testing should have been completed before the original sales offer was made a year earlier claiming final production was underway.
I’m not even committed to actually reinstating my order even if they eventually deliver the Android app, much less about beg to to volunteer to do unpaid engineering work for WT.
Android app ready at ship time? Nothing wrong with that. I’ve maintained all along they they shouldn’t have gated starting on the Android app development on shipping hardware. Perhaps they haven’t. Perhaps all they have now in the video is a mockup…all we see is some pretty screens and BT paring working (which was working long ago, we’re told).
Welcome to the club.
How can you tell when this is done?
Not sure if a message is sent to you when your status changes, but you can check your level by clicking on your name and looking at your profile.
No notice. Just a limitation on posting shows up, which prompted me to look at my status, which shows new user, now; which I am anything but.
FYI - forum software application has a parameter called trust level, which is measured from 0-4. There are also names attached to each number, but they aren’t the operative element, the number is. Higher number ==> greater trust.
With quantity and accuracy of posts, the number goes up. If one of the moderators notices posted info that is observably inaccurate, a moderator can lower the trust level. That’s likely what prompted one of the moderators to adjust it.
I think you have one or more rogue moderators.
Re-read all my posts and determine if anything was in the realm of “inaccurate to point of requiring change of level.” I doubt it.