Customization of layers

I’ve been interested in getting as much on one layout as possible, but in a logical way to make it easier to learn and remember. Right now I can’t do it all because of limitations on what we can change. I’ve posted to WT about it, hoping there isn’t some built-in limitation they can’t avoid.

Meanwhile, I thought I’d post my ideas here to get some opinions. The whole things boils down to the need to be able to go into the number lock, edit lock, or (I hope) an eventual media lock mode but have both the present main layer but add in a green layer.

Right now on the number layer, the 15 keys are taken up by 10 numbers, a decimal point, and the four main math operators. Anything you add needs to go on the left blade which means you need two hands.

Now suppose you can edit the green layer in number lock mode. It seems it would be fairly intuitive to put the plus key on the main layer, but the minus key on the same key but use the green layer. Same with multiply and divide. Now you are only using two keys for the math - fewer keys to remember and simple to think of the green layer as making something smaller (minus or divide) - but other logic could be used.

With the two freed up keys, we can do what some like - include the normal number keys across the whole top (sometimes if you just need a quick digit, it can be easier to reach out and hit a number you actually see). This means adding another 6 to the right hand - but you still have one key free on the main layer. Maybe an equal sign. Or make the decimal key have a green layer equal sign. Now you still have a free key - possibly a combination for $ and %. Or maybe open and closed parenthesis. And remember, you still have the number pad keys you can do something with on the green layer. Suddenly it is rare, if ever, that you need both hands for number operations.

This logic can apply to editing. Forward and back on letters, words, or lines could be handled with half the keys. One for moving forward while the green layer reverses the direction. Undo, redo could be one key. Cut or copy on one key.

Likewise with media. Volume up and down just one key. Fast forward and reverse is one key.

Now if you have no need to have some of these things accessible at the same time, the consolidation this would allow may not matter to you. But for me, I could combine all the editing stuff on one hand with all the media stuff on the other and still have keys left over for other things. Heck, since the symbols for editing and for media are quite similar, we could have editing on the main layer of the right hand and media for a green layer.

Based on similar requests over the last few weeks, change is coming on the release this week.

We’ll post with latest details as soon as we release it.

Could all the TREGers please stop making software requests, otherwise @waytools will never release the hardware. Thanks.

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I’m just guessing, but I think the software release this week is not gating general release.

Implementing new features always has the risk of introducing new bugs which would then require another week of testing before release. It’s been over a week since we were told that there’s no hardware issues, yet the only information we’ve received is that they are going to push out a new firmware with some unneeded feature for general hardware release. This feature request could easily be put in some over the air update at a later date.

These software changes just seem to distract waytools from getting the hardware released. I wonder why their couldn’t have done all these software/firmware changes during the last 17months of ‘hardware’ fixes and tweaks :confused:

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That’s correct. While we didn’t know the details, it’s been over a week since they said we’d soon be getting an update that allowed more customization - just didn’t know how much it might allow.

These are just things happening as they finish locking down the hardware.

@waytools, if this is going to let me edit those green layers, it will be great.

All good things take time–the only good things that don’t are called…miracles.

Yes, but at some point, the official version in the app store should be good enough and decoupled from whatever version is being used in-house or by beta testers. So, a new app release wouldn’t force a delay of general release.

To be fair, you could always just go back to the older version…

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As I expected - all the members supporting waytools (central, hjkl, brotherlea, etc) delaying action are TREGers that already have their textblade, thus not really caring how long Waytools delays the hardware release. Nice.

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I’m not advocating delay.

The SW/FW releases should be coming out at least every week in a beta channel. Not every one of those should make it to official release.

The app and FW used for general release should be finished already and should not be delaying general release.

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Well, yeah, there is always some risk. But the facts are that, while they work out the hardware production issues, there have been a host improvements to the firmware. Only one even remotely could be said to have caused some other problem - and it wasn’t a feature request anyway. It was the problem I had with getting symbols on some keys occasionally because of my typing style.

So they changed the timings. Worked for me, but caused problems for some others. So they made it user selectable. That’s it and it was not about a feature anyway. Nothing has created problems for the hardware.

So, okay, you can’t say zero risk, but this simply hasn’t delayed anything. Especially my example - which is the only example - since it occurred before the last hardware issue was even found. Maybe before the last two.

As for how long since there was a hardware issue, it’s more like 3 weeks or so. But that still left them with how to properly run them through the final production process. That takes testing too.

This isn’t a distraction. It’s simply having the software people proceeding while hardware finishes up.

Just pointing out it isn’t delaying anything. And you are making false assumptions about us not caring about delays. NOT nice.

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I am very explicitly not supporting them delaying action.

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shrug None of us have all the needed information as Waytools doesn’t provide enough information in any of their updates. As you said, it’s been about 3 weeks with no new issues in the hardware - yet there’s now new mysterious (and apparently, unknown in length) changes required at the factory. Maybe it’ll take another 2 days - maybe another 2 months - but you can be pretty sure that each new update that Waytools graces us with will make it appear as if it’s only a week or two away.

Maybe I am making ‘false assumptions’, yet with the hundreds of users on this forum, the only users that added their comments were TREGers - and none were negative of Waytools delays.

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@waytools
One other thing. Right now any lock layer seems to time out in 2-3 minutes after the last key press. I assume that is to save battery from drain from the LEDs. I don’t know how much effect those lights have, but one of the advantages of the options I want for customization is for when I’m not normally using the keyboard for regular typing, but just now and then I need to make an occasional change. Like changing the volume, etc. So the keyboard may not be touched for a lot longer than 3 minutes.

I would be nice to be able to lock in much longer, but I can also see how, if you turn off the LLDs to save battery, still leavinh it locked may cause confusion. Maybe a double lock - the one like now, but if you lock it while holding down a shift key, it stays locked, maybe just turning on the LEDs once for a second every 5-10 seconds.

Regardless, I’ll be happy just being able to customize the way I described.

Thanks. Maybe if a TREGer could start a new thread stating that, in their opinion, the Textblade is ready to ship and they don’t understand why it’s being delayed and enough TREGers back them up, maybe Waytools will have to start responding more frequently with updates?

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I agree about false assumptions, @dabigkahuna. Talk about building a straw man just to knock it down… Everyone here already knows that TREG doesn’t ‘call the shots’ with WayTools. They aren’t holding anything back on OUR account. What, @aking, are you directing your impatience at us? I’m still waiting for the two TextBlades I ordered–I use this for testing, but don’t consider it mine.

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First, I do want to say thanks for the constructive comment here - not just attacking people to vent your frustrations.

Unfortunately, I don’t think that anyone outside of WayTools can control anything that WayTools does, and so nobody can really make it so that they “have” to start responding more frequently with updates.

Somebody earlier in this thread mentioned that there are suddenly these “new” hardware modifications that showed up without WayTools saying anything about them. I, at least, am unaware of any hardware updates beyond the last set of updates to the assembly process that WayTools announced. I believe that they have also indicated that these are “gating” release.

I think that I have a TextBlade that has the latest set of hardware modifications and I haven’t observed any hardware issues at all, which is really good. This is also consistent with the results of their internal testing as reported by WayTools. Obviously I cannot control what they do, but the last word I heard is that they’re ramping up on the modifications that need to be made to their stock and are preparing to ship just as soon as they have sufficient quantity of that working. (Of course, you could take that as a good sign or as just another “it’ll be next week, forever”, depending on how you are feeling about WayTools at the moment…)

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Another brief note about communication:

I think that when you communicate well with your customers and show them the information, you can create a group of people who, instead of being furious at a year’s delays, understand some of the reasoning behind that delay (even if they’re unhappy about it). You see this a lot with some different kickstarter projects, the ones that are delayed but communicate well often end up with a community of people that are invested in the company’s progress and rooting for them to succeed. They’re conscious of delays, but having that communication allows their customers to feel more a part of the team. And that’s what I wish WayTools would do. I don’t know why they don’t.

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We don’t know if it is ready. Let me go through this again:

  1. Some of the very first TREG testers never had any problems - not with hardware and not with firmware. I doubt they would, if they saw the issues others reported, would say it was ready just because they had no problems themselves. There were, I believe, only 25 known testers then and only 30 now. So it is possible there are problems none of us experienced, yet happen too often.

  2. But they have told us all known hardware has been fixed - so now what? Well, they have to apply those fixes on a large scale and that is not something that you can just assume will work out the first time. So, after testing the fixes on a very small number of devices, just to see if the fixes work, you run a small batch throught the normal assembly process - and test those for awhile. Because, you see, an assembly problem might not show up right away. We know of at least one case just in the test group where an error in assembly didn’t show up right away.

  3. After that small batch is done on the regular assembly line and passes tests, you make a larger number and do the same thing.

No one, other than WT, can say how long each should be tested. Nor can anyone else say how many steps to this process there will be - is it just one small batch, a larger batch, then ship. Or do they do steadily large batches before reaching a shipping stage? How long do you test each of these? There literally is no one answer. There is no right answer. And even if they start out with a rough time for each, I’m sure it will be affected based on how the tests come out.

For example, let’s say 99% success is the goal. But they get 99.5%. If they get that on the second test, they may feel they don’t have to test as long. But if it 98%, they may proceed with a second test, but want to test it longer than planned.

So, no, I won’t be saying it is “ready to ship” because I can well understand there are reasons it may not be. But I will continue to push for updates at least weekly. That’s perfectly reasonable.

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